To: pdx_wg
From: Anne
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 21:43:17 -0800
Subject: Re: [pdx_wg] Vortrap update -- Latest Trap Water Diary

Hi Barry and Portland Group,

Well, I'm finally ready to build my own magnetic vortex trap. The "Trap Water Diaries" got me inspired. I've got some questions; ones that I know have been discussed before. It's been my puzzlement over these questions, more than my lack of tools and skills, that has stopped me from attempting this experiment up to now, so I hope someone here won't mind pointing me in the right direction.

First, is there any reason not to at least TRY the vortrap with city water? Portland's is known to be among the purest--Barry, is it worth a shot?

Second, has anyone experimented with putting a vortrap right into the plumbing, so that all household water use could help generate the M-state? Tips and ideas appreciated.

Third and last, does the "normal" water that comes out the big end of the trap have any enhanced qualities, such as having been re-spun around the vortex and therefore re-energized in some way? That is to say, would watering the yard with the many gallons pouring through the trap have any special benefits to the plant life?

Many thanks in advance, and I'm printing out the materials list right now in preparation for a trip to Home Depot.

Anne

From: Barry Carter <bcarter@igc.org>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:37:57 -0700
Subject: [pdx_wg] Vortrap update -- Latest Trap Water Diary

Dear friends,

I have updated the instructions for the Vortrap to reflect the answers to some of your questions. This updated file can be found at:

http://www.OrmusMinerals.com/Vortrap.htm

--

With kindest regards,

Barry Carter

To: pdx_wg
From: Anne
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 12:51:47 -0800
Subject: Re: [pdx_wg]

This is great, Barry! Thanks. The instructions are so detailed and well-illustrated. I've got a question about them after reading them over several times. In step 16, the instructions seem to skip a step, unless I'm reading them wrong. We have the M-state collector tube protruding from the top cap, and then we have the completed assembly including the outlet barb. I don't see that part in the parts list--is it essentially the same item as at the left-hand end of the  parts photo in your "outdoor" vortex trap instructions?

Also, just a small correction: in the parts table (the "shopping list") at the beginning, it might be helpful to put a quantity of 2 on the item "4-inch end caps."

I'm off to test part availability at my local Home Depot and will report back.

Anne

To: ormus <pdx_wg>
From: Anne
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 17:36:19 -0800
Subject: [pdx_wg] Off to a slow start

Hello fellow M-State Inquirers,

I've decided to start my own trap water diary in the hopes that if I can succeed on my mechanical ineptitude, then others will be encouraged to try. I'm a good test case for the written and illustrated instructions because you can't assume ANY technical knowledge on my part.

I spent a somewhat frustrating 2-1/2 hours in the plumbing department of Home Depot this afternoon, pop Christmas songs being constantly interrupted by frantic calls over the PA system for more employees to work the checkout lines.

My frustration came from two directions (not counting the music). First, I could see right away that I'd have to make some substitutions on the parts, but lacking a clear overall sense of the principles of the trap, I felt very unsure about what would work.

Second, Home Depot always seems to have absolutely everything until you start looking for something very, very specific. I spent most of my time just fiddling with different fittings and components, trying to come up with a male/female, threaded/unthreaded, PVC-to-brass-to-vinyl combination that would actually work.

I came away about $25 later with what I hope are most of the things I'll need to get into the project and at least get a better understanding of the principles.  Another correction you might want to make on the instructions, Barry: Item 18 in the materials list, the machine screws and nuts should have a quantity of six each, I think, rather than three. The photograph shows two screws per leg. Also, the instructions mention some small washers--possibly you could call these out as well. I left Home Depot without 'em.

Now I've got some questions.

1. On the magnets (which HD didn't have at all): could those small black ceramic magnets be used? I've got hundreds 3/4" round ones, about 3/16" thick, left over from a defunct manufacturing process and I'd like to put some of them to use.

2. What is the function of the 4" diameter chamber in the sink trap? HD had 4" PVC pipe but no caps, so I bought 2" and thought I'd just construct a longer chamber. Will this work?

3. Please comment on my understanding of the trap's basic principle: Water at a flow volume of X enters the device through a tangential opening that forces the water to swirl vortex-wise inside a chamber more or less covered with magnets. The vortex action is controlled by setting the outflow volume at something like X divided by 2. The magnetized vortex separates the M-state water from the rest, and in a natural result of the laws of physics, sends the M-state out one end of the vortex while the plain water flows out the other. The M-state end of the device limits the flow to a volume of something like X divided by 4 in order a) to  ensure that the incoming water keeps spinning and doesn't just spill out the ends and b) to enhance the concentration of M-state. How far off am I?

Okay, now I'm going to go start sawing and drilling. More news later.

Anne

To: pdx_wg
From: Barry Carter <bcarter@igc.org>
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 23:11:43 -0700
Subject: Re: [pdx_wg] Off to a slow start

Dear Anne,

At 05:36 PM 12/3/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Hello fellow M-State Inquirers,
>
>I've decided to start my own trap water diary in the hopes that if I can
>succeed on my mechanical ineptitude, then others will be encouraged to
>try. I'm a good test case for the written and illustrated instructions
>because you can't assume ANY technical knowledge on my part.
>
>I spent a somewhat frustrating 2-1/2 hours in the plumbing department of
>Home Depot this afternoon, pop Christmas songs being constantly
>interrupted by frantic calls over the PA system for more employees to
>work the checkout lines.
>
>My frustration came from two directions (not counting the music). First,
>I could see right away that I'd have to make some substitutions on the
>parts, but lacking a clear overall sense of the principles of the trap,
>I felt very unsure about what would work.
>
>Second, Home Depot always seems to have absolutely everything until you
>start looking for something very, very specific. I spent most of my time
>just fiddling with different fittings and components, trying to come up
>with a male/female, threaded/unthreaded, PVC-to-brass-to-vinyl
>combination that would actually work.

I am a trained professional in this kind of work and I generally have to do the same sort of thing to get it right. The only difference is that in Baker City, where I live, we don't have any really big hardware stores like Home Depot so I generally have to go to four or five different stores to get what I want.

>I came away about $25 later with what I hope are most of the things I'll
>need to get into the project and at least get a better understanding of
>the principles.
>
>Another correction you might want to make on the instructions, Barry:
>Item 18 in the materials list, the machine screws and nuts should have a
>quantity of six each, I think, rather than three. The photograph shows
>two screws per leg. Also, the instructions mention some small
>washers--possibly you could call these out as well. I left Home Depot
>without 'em.

The gentleman who designed the trap has made some changes to the mounting system for the legs. We will be posting these changes one day soon. The new system will only use one screw per leg.

>Now I've got some questions.
>
>1. On the magnets (which HD didn't have at all): could those small black
>ceramic magnets be used? I've got hundreds 3/4" round ones, about 3/16"
>thick, left over from a defunct manufacturing process and I'd like to
>put some of them to use.

Weaker magnets will get weaker results but you can give them a try since enough of the proper magnets would cost thirty dollars or more at Radio Shack.

>2. What is the function of the 4" diameter chamber in the sink trap? HD
>had 4" PVC pipe but no caps, so I bought 2" and thought I'd just
>construct a longer chamber. Will this work?

It probably will but I can't say for sure. My first one will duplicate the original as closely as possible.

>3. Please comment on my understanding of the trap's basic principle:
>Water at a flow volume of X enters the device through a tangential
>opening that forces the water to swirl vortex-wise inside a chamber more
>or less covered with magnets. The vortex action is controlled by setting
>the outflow volume at something like X divided by 2. The magnetized
>vortex separates the M-state water from the rest, and in a natural
>result of the laws of physics, sends the M-state out one end of the
>vortex while the plain water flows out the other. The M-state end of the
>device limits the flow to a volume of something like X divided by 4 in
>order a) to  ensure that the incoming water keeps spinning and doesn't
>just spill out the ends and b) to enhance the concentration of M-state.
>How far off am I?

This is pretty close.

>Okay, now I'm going to go start sawing and drilling. More news later.

You should also try to get some four inch caps to duplicate the original. You can always compare the two to one another.

--

With kindest regards,

Barry Carter

To: pdx_wg
From: Barry Carter <bcarter@igc.org>
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 15:42:57 -0700
Subject: Re: [pdx_wg] Off to a slow start

Dear Anne,

Here is the response I got from the gentleman who developed the Winter Sink Trap:

Anne is apparently somewhat informed of how the traps work.  One thought I had for building the Vertical Vortex trap was to get gravity to work for us. I choose the 4-inch diameter to provide high speed at the circumference and relative quiet in the center sort of like a hurricane.  M material seems to like quiet.  The 4 inch diameter also helps to maintain a larger quantity of water allowing more time for separation before leaving in the waste out bottom controlled drain and a much calmer center than smaller diameter tubes.  Internal volume increases logarithmically with diameter.

Another benefit  for a vertical indoor vortex trap is to minimize splash in the waste outlet.

I have no doubt that Anne will get some measurable results.  She should definitely increase the length of the barrel to help the water stay in it longer.  My thoughts would be about 12 inches.  She will need to use 45 degree elbows to mount the legs or heat them and bend them to provide stability and span the sink drain.  If she stacks her magnets about 4 deep and places these stacks around the tube the field should be pretty strong. I have found stacking these small ceramic magnets up to 4 deep adds pull. After that the gain is minimal.  I would also suggest reducing the inlet pressure with the faucet and limiting waste out with the hose clamp if her initial results are not effective.  This will result in the water staying in the trap longer with a much calmer center.

While this sink trap does make a vortex, it is not exactly the same principle as the horizontal trap.  Horizontal traps work on very high speed and a counter vortex in the center.  The vertical design is essentially a water cyclone with the EYE in the collector material.  Something to consider when building a taller trap is the need for more waste out restriction to cause the water to be pushed out the top.  She will also need to make a longer collector tube for the center.  The current design calls for the tube to be about 2 inches above the waste out.

I feel she has a very good chance the 2inch vertical trap will be very effective.  Personally, I would start by using moderate flow and a restricted waste out to allow a moderate vortex, calm eye, gravity and magnetic repulsion to do the work of separation.  She may even consider causing a counter clockwise rotation to make the M more uncomfortable in the moving water.

Hope this helps
_________________________________

--

With kindest regards,

Barry Carter

To: pdx_wg
From: Anne
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:01:56 -0800
Subject: Re: [pdx_wg] Off to a slow start

Thank you, Barry! I feel so grateful for all this great first-hand information. After reading your earlier posts, I found a plumbing supply house that could sell me both the 4" PVC pipe and the caps, so I'm equipped now to try both versions. I especially appreciate the description of how the two trap types differ in function.

To my fellow Portland-area inquirers: I've got WAY more 4" and 2" pipe than I need, and would be happy to share--pipe and information both. Just let me know.

I'm just now marking my PVC parts, and then I'm off to borrow a big drill press. Thanks again for the great feedback from your own knowledge and from the inventor.

Anne

From: Barry Carter <bcarter@igc.org>
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:30:04 -0700
Subject: [pdx_wg] Surplus Magnet Source

Dear Friends,

A source for strong magnets suitable for the magnetic traps can be found at:

http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/magnet27.html

--

With kindest regards,

Barry Carter

To: ormus <pdx_wg>
From: Anne
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 23:23:07 -0800
Subject: [pdx_wg] Sink trap progress report

Hello Portland-area M-state alchemists!

As a treat to myself on my birthday, I skipped work spent the day working on my sink trap. I'm proud to report that it's nearly finished, and the only reason I'm not out in the kitchen working on it right now is that I need to make one more trip to a hardware store and I'm just too tired. So I'll report on my progress before giving my weary hands and shoulders a rest for the night.

The drill press I was going to borrow last night was not equipped with a 7/8" bit--which turned out to be a good thing, because the half-inch Schedule 40 PVC pipe I bought has an actual outside diameter of 13/16". My course in metal smithing has stood me in good stead: I knew better than to create a big hole in my base material without testing the fit first. So if you're following the instructions, DON'T drill 7/8" holes: measure the outside diameter of your half-inch pipe before drilling. The 7/8" mentioned would have made holes that were too big.

I solved the problem by outlining the the holes with a 13/16" wood boring bit in my hand-held drill, then cutting them out with a jeweler's saw and finishing them carefully with a half-round metal file. This gave the good tight fit necessary for solvent welding--aka gluing PVC parts together.

The instructions do assume certain skills and abilities that a lot of people might have missed out on (if they didn't take shop in high school, for instance). If you decide to build your own trap and you're not a handyman or woman and don't have one around, I'd be glad to share what I've learned. It could be fun to have a trap-assembly party some dull winter Saturday.

Here's where I am now: the components are done. A quick test showed that the water does, indeed, swirl into the chamber in a most satisfying way--and I can't get over what a simple, elegant solution this is to creating a vortex. The bottom portion has failed the leak test, owing to a less-than-perfect fit between my 4" pipe and the end cap. I bought them from the same supplier, too! I'm going to try caulking it shut tomorrow.

I couldn't locate fiberglass sheet or oil-spill absorbing fabric anywhere (Barry, what kind of store sells that stuff?), so based on White Gold group discussions from a couple of years ago, I've constructed an "intuitive" filter out of several layers of linen fabric wrapped around a body of wool yarns, and inserted it into the intake pipe. It fills the tube but not tightly. I intend to seal the top of the chamber with more silicone caulk so that I can open it and replace this filter with something else if it doesn't work.

Two other modifications: On the inlet hose, I chose a snap-on coupling of the sort used with portable dishwashers. It cost a couple of dollars more than a simple hose connector, but it's very convenient. On the waste outlet, instead of a piece of hose and a constrictor, I chose a PVC shut-off valve. I notice in the new instructions for the secondary trap posted today, this same device is also used. Unless I find splashing to be a big problem, I don't plan to add the drain adapter below the shutoff valve--it doesn't seem to be necessary for my purposes.

I have to tell you all, for a secret Home Depot junkie like me, this day has been deeply gratifying. I have an ENORMOUS mess in my kitchen, but there on the counter among the used bits of sandpaper and the drill bits is this extremely cool-looking white mini water tower that promises to produce all the M-state I can afford on my water bill. It's an amazingly clever and well-thought-out design--there's such genius behind these devices that working on one of them has really given me the sense of being part of something very significant.

Which brings me to my final thought for the day: I'm already designing a version of this trap that would go right on the water main coming into the house. The "waste" water would of course be all the water used in the household. I envision the M-state collecting in some sort of receptacle that could be retrieved periodically, or better still, that could come up to the kitchen by means of a small electric pump. Barry, I know I can't be the first person to think about this. Assuming I can get ANY m-state out of Portland water, what are some of the other considerations? Any thoughts?

More tomorrow when I actually finish and test my trap.

Anne

To: pdx_wg
From: Barry Carter <bcarter@igc.org>
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 00:34:22 -0700
Subject: Re: [pdx_wg] Sink trap progress report

Dear Anne,

Before I get to answering your questions I would like to congratulate you on a job well done. I would also like your permission to post all of your recent notes to the WhiteGold list. I think that they would be quite helpful to a lot of people.

At 11:23 PM 12/5/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Hello Portland-area M-state alchemists!
>
>As a treat to myself on my birthday, I skipped work spent the day
>working on my sink trap. I'm proud to report that it's nearly finished,
>and the only reason I'm not out in the kitchen working on it right now
>is that I need to make one more trip to a hardware store and I'm just
>too tired. So I'll report on my progress before giving my weary hands
>and shoulders a rest for the night.
>
>The drill press I was going to borrow last night was not equipped with a
>7/8" bit--which turned out to be a good thing, because the half-inch
>Schedule 40 PVC pipe I bought has an actual outside diameter of 13/16".
>My course in metalsmithing has stood me in good stead: I knew better
>than to create a big hole in my base material without testing the fit
>first. So if you're following the instructions, DON'T drill 7/8" holes:
>measure the outside diameter of your half-inch pipe before drilling. The
>7/8" mentioned would have made holes that were too big.

And to think that I almost spent $20 on a 7/8 inch bit without even checking this out. Thanks for this information. I will modify the instructions to suit.

>I solved the problem by outlining the the holes with a 13/16" wood
>boring bit in my hand-held drill, then cutting them out with a jeweler's
>saw and finishing them carefully with a half-round metal file. This gave
>the good tight fit necessary for solvent welding--aka gluing PVC parts
>together.
>
>The instructions do assume certain skills and abilities that a lot of
>people might have missed out on (if they didn't take shop in high
>school, for instance). If you decide to build your own trap and you're
>not a handyman or woman and don't have one around, I'd be glad to share
>what I've learned. It could be fun to have a trap-assembly party some
>dull winter Saturday.

I might be able to attend such a meeting if I could justify the 300 mile drive to Portland.

>Here's where I am now: the components are done. A quick test showed that
>the water does, indeed, swirl into the chamber in a most satisfying
>way--and I can't get over what a simple, elegant solution this is to
>creating a vortex. The bottom portion has failed the leak test, owing to
>a less-than-perfect fit between my 4" pipe and the end cap. I bought
>them from the same supplier, too! I'm going to try caulking it shut
>tomorrow.

Sometimes you can just drip more solvent into the gap where the leak is and this will fix it.

>I couldn't locate fiberglass sheet or oil-spill absorbing fabric
>anywhere (Barry, what kind of store sells that stuff?)

This is just screen material like you use on windows or screen doors but it is the fiberglass reinforced plastic screen, not the aluminum screen. Any hardware store should have it.

>so based on
>White Gold group discussions from a couple of years ago, I've
>constructed an "intuitive" filter out of several layers of linen fabric
>wrapped around a body of wool yarns, and inserted it into the intake
>pipe. It fills the tube but not tightly. I intend to seal the top of the
>chamber with more silicone caulk so that I can open it and replace this
>filter with something else if it doesn't work.

This sounds like an elegant solution. I will be interested in hearing how it works.

>Two other modifications: On the inlet hose, I chose a snap-on coupling
>of the sort used with portable dishwashers. It cost a couple of dollars
>more than a simple hose connector, but it's very convenient. On the
>waste outlet, instead of a piece of hose and a constrictor, I chose a
>PVC shut-off valve. I notice in the new instructions for the secondary
>trap posted today, this same device is also used. Unless I find
>splashing to be a big problem, I don't plan to add the drain adapter
>below the shutoff valve--it doesn't seem to be necessary for my
>purposes.

The reason this was not used in the original design is because it does not evenly reduce the output hole size. The inventor thought that an even circumferential restriction would maintain a more even vortex than the ball valve.

>I have to tell you all, for a secret Home Depot junkie like me, this day
>has been deeply gratifying. I have an ENORMOUS mess in my kitchen, but
>there on the counter among the used bits of sandpaper and the drill bits
>is this extremely cool-looking white mini water tower that promises to
>produce all the M-state I can afford on my water bill. It's an amazingly
>clever and well-thought-out design--there's such genius behind these
>devices that working on one of them has really given me the sense of
>being part of something very significant.

This is an evolving design. I am sure that you will make modifications and discoveries which will significantly contribute to our knowledge here. The linsey-wolsey "filter" is a stroke of genius.

>Which brings me to my final thought for the day: I'm already designing a
>version of this trap that would go right on the water main coming into
>the house. The "waste" water would of course be all the water used in
>the household. I envision the M-state collecting in some sort of
>receptacle that could be retrieved periodically, or better still, that
>could come up to the kitchen by means of a small electric pump. Barry, I
>know I can't be the first person to think about this. Assuming I can get
>ANY m-state out of Portland water, what are some of the other
>considerations? Any thoughts?

I recently built such a trap but I have not tested or installed it yet. I am waiting for time and magnets. You can see some pictures of this trap at:

http://www.OrmusMinerals.com/traps/Test002.jpg
http://www.OrmusMinerals.com/traps/const007.jpg

You can probably tell that these are photos in a series. The rest of the series is on the web if you want more from other directions.

I am photo-documenting the entire process but have not had time to cut the pipes under my house to install this thing.

--

With kindest regards,

Barry Carter

To: pdx_wg
From: Anne
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 11:26:58 -0800
Subject: Re: [pdx_wg] Sink trap progress report

Barry, please feel free to post my comments wherever you think they'll be useful. I hope my trial-and-error process will help save time for others. This isn't a simple project, but it's certainly not beyond the capabilities of an avid inquirer, and it's lots of fun for those who enjoy making things with their hands.

Thank you for your prompt answers to my questions. I feel encouraged about the "linsey-woolsey" filter and will proceed with it, although I realize that I have a big chunk of fiberglass screen material around the house--now that I know what it is.

I'm looking now at your photographs of the plumbed-in version of the trap and am fascinated by it. The following questions and comments are just for when you have time--I'm a long ways off from building an installed version for my own house, but I'll be interested to know more about the thinking behind your design.

What are the black components? And am I correct in assuming that the magnets will go around the lower, uninterrupted portion of the trap section? I'm curious about all the shutoff valves--apparently these allow you to bypass the M-state process when desired...? Also, I can't for the life of me figure out how the plain "waste" water to run the household comes out *after* it passes over the receptacle. I imagine the trap sending M-state up to the blue bin, and sending the plain water down, which in your photograph appears to lead only back to the main inlet.

In the second, larger detail photograph I notice that the half-inch pipe with its tangential slots at the left seems to be inserted into the larger pipe, which also has tangential slots, shown at the right. Can you say more about this arrangement, or should I imagine them lined up once the two pipes are nested? It's reminiscent of the inner-and-outer chamber design using the big nested cooking pots, but I don't quite understand it.

Thanks again, Barry. I am off to find silicone sealant, and hope to be making my own M-state before the day is out.

To: pdx_wg
From: Anne
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 19:22:24 -0800
Subject: Re: [pdx_wg] My New Winterap and Trap Water Diary Update

Barry, thanks for your report. I'm pleased to hear that you've gotten such strong results.

I've made a few gallons of trap water from my local Portland tap water with no discernible effect at all. The water tastes fresh and nice, but after several tries, I can't sense anything significantly different about it. I will say that I've tasted the trap water and the waste water in a side by side comparison, and there's a slight difference in which I'd characterize the waste water as being more stale. While I built my trap as closely according to instructions as I could, I don't have a high degree of confidence in my variations. My trap has about 180 small ceramic button-type magnets taped around the bottom, four deep as suggested. My "linsey-woolsey" filter didn't hold up well--it actually came loose during my third batch and exited through the waste drain! But it didn't seem to make much difference to the trap water in or out.

Would you say that your greater success is due primarily to your water source--which I presume is well water out in E. Oregon--or two the two-stage trap that you've built?

Also, can you say more about the importance of using glass receptacles, and why the inventor wraps his water bottles in aluminum foil?

Thanks--and don't space out TOO far! I'm anxious to read further reports.

Happy New Year,
Anne

From: Barry Carter <bcarter@igc.org>
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 18:52:44 -0700
Subject: [pdx_wg] Winter Sink Trap Revision

Dear Friends,

I have just completed a major revision to the web page which tells how to make the Winter Sink Trap. I have added instructions for glued on legs, a removable/replaceable collector and I am now recommending the use of polypropylene rope instead of fiberglass screen in the collector.

The revised Winter Sink Trap web page is at:

http://www.OrmusMinerals.com/sinktrap.htm

--

With kindest regards,

Barry Carter

From: Barry Carter <bcarter@igc.org>
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 22:01:28 -0700
Subject: [pdx_wg] Millenium M-state Magic

Dear Friends,

The Trap Water Diary folks ran the second stage trap water through the second stage trap an additional two times and got some magical golden liquid with very unusual shapes and motions in it. You can read their description of these things and see the pictures they took this afternoon at the end of the web page at:

M-state Seeps Through
http://www.OrmusMinerals.com/m-seeps.htm

These pictures are so beautiful.

--

With kindest regards,

Barry Carter

From: Barry Carter <bcarter@igc.org>
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 12:47:38 -0700
Subject: [pdx_wg] Re: Spotted Lynx

Dear Friends,

I just got a price quote on the magnets from Magnet Sales and Manufacturing at:

http://www.magnetsales.com/ferrite/ferrrect.htm

Item number 21989 has the following bulk price breaks:

100 for $.74 each
250 for $.56 each
500 for $.43 each

Since these are substantial price savings it might be helpful if several people in a given area got together and bought these magnets.

--

With kindest regards,

Barry Carter

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 21:42:45 -0700
To: pdx_wg
From: Barry Carter <bcarter@igc.org>
Subject: Re: [pdx_wg] Trap construction question

Dear Anne,

At 09:18 PM 1/20/2001 -0800, you wrote:

>I've decided to start over again on the main sink trap, incorporating
>the bottom-mounted legs and the removable collector. I've ordered 100
>ceramic block magnets (grade 5, 7/8" x 1-7/8" x 3/8"-- $.60 apiece) and
>several ring magents to go around the outflow pipe. Found 'em here:
>
>http://www.magnets-ceramic.com/ceramic/ceramicblocks.htm

Good link!

>I spent some time at the hardware store and Home Depot this afternoon.
>It's not easy to find 4" schedule 40 PVC pipe, and it's even harder to
>find the 4" modular components. My Home Depot carries NOTHING in 4" PVC,
>while the local Coast-to-Coast franchise has 4" components that don't
>fit the pipe I bought elsewhere.

I found most of what I needed at Lowes in Tacoma. You might try a Lowes in Portland.

>So here's my question for the evening: other than the greater aesthetic
>appeal of white PVC for drinking-water applications, is there any reason
>not to use the black ABS pipe instead?

ABS is probably not safe for potable water. I have thought of using it several times but I always come back to this point.

>I ask because I think I've come up with a simple solution to the
>removable trap problem using components that are available in 4" ABS.
>Barry, as I understand your instructions, the point of the 4" coupler,
>reducers, Fitting Saver bit, etc., is simply to create a collector
>assembly that screws into place rather than being glued, to allow for
>changing the collector material--right? Is it okay if the interior of
>the top assembly isn't a smooth, domelike shape, as in the simpler
>glued-together model? Put another way, does the interior vortex depend
>only on the cylindrical shape of the main body?
>
>If it's okay to use ABS, my new vortrap will have an elegant black body
>with white legs and couplings. I'll let you know more tomorrow after
>exploring the plumbing department of a different home center and maybe a
>couple of other hardware stores.
>
>I must mention for anyone thinking of trying this: it's MUCH easier to
>figure out the second time through the process. Also, I've been able to
>salvage many of the more expensive components from my first
>attempt--notably all the brass hose fittings I used. I recommend reading
>through the instructions, getting a feel for the principles involved,
>making a few drawings, and familiarizing yourself with the plumbing
>components that are available to you. Then just accept the fact that
>you'll be making more than one trip to the hardware store as you
>improvise solutions of your own. Don't scrape the little UPC labels off
>of any of the parts till you're sure you're going to use them--I had to
>return a bunch of extraneous bits during my first attempt.

This is very good advise.

I have found that the hardest part of this entire process is getting suitable parts. Even with substitution, I have had to go to five different stores in Baker City to get everything I need.

--

With kindest regards,

Barry Carter

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 21:18:54 -0800
From: Anne
To: pdx_wg
Subject: [pdx_wg] Trap construction question

Hi Barry and Portland group,

I've decided to start over again on the main sink trap, incorporating the bottom-mounted legs and the removable collector. I've ordered 100 ceramic block magnets (grade 5, 7/8" x 1-7/8" x 3/8"-- $.60 apiece) and several ring magents to go around the outflow pipe. Found 'em here:

http://www.magnets-ceramic.com/ceramic/ceramicblocks.htm

I spent some time at the hardware store and Home Depot this afternoon. It's not easy to find 4" schedule 40 PVC pipe, and it's even harder to find the 4" modular components. My Home Depot carries NOTHING in 4" PVC, while the local Coast-to-Coast franchise has 4" components that don't fit the pipe I bought elsewhere.

So here's my question for the evening: other than the greater aesthetic appeal of white PVC for drinking-water applications, is there any reason not to use the black ABS pipe instead?

I ask because I think I've come up with a simple solution to the removable trap problem using components that are available in 4" ABS. Barry, as I understand your instructions, the point of the 4" coupler, reducers, Fitting Saver bit, etc., is simply to create a collector assembly that screws into place rather than being glued, to allow for changing the collector material--right? Is it okay if the interior of the top assembly isn't a smooth, domelike shape, as in the simpler glued-together model? Put another way, does the interior vortex depend only on the cylindrical shape of the main body?

If it's okay to use ABS, my new vortrap will have an elegant black body with white legs and couplings. I'll let you know more tomorrow after exploring the plumbing department of a different home center and maybe a couple of other hardware stores.

I must mention for anyone thinking of trying this: it's MUCH easier to figure out the second time through the process. Also, I've been able to salvage many of the more expensive components from my first attempt--notably all the brass hose fittings I used. I recommend reading through the instructions, getting a feel for the principles involved, making a few drawings, and familiarizing yourself with the plumbing components that are available to you. Then just accept the fact that you'll be making more than one trip to the hardware store as you improvise solutions of your own. Don't scrape the little UPC labels off of any of the parts till you're sure you're going to use them--I had to return a bunch of extraneous bits during my first attempt.

More later.

To: pdx_wg
From: Anne
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:04:13 -0700
Subject: [pdx_wg] Makin' M-state

Hi Barry and Portland group,

As I write this, my kitchen tap is running full blast, putting out what I assume is some level of M-state water through Son of Vortrap.

My second attempt at a vortex water trap features these improvements over the first go-round: it's quite a lot taller, with Barry's recommended 10" collector tube; it has a removable top so that the collector material can be changed if needed (I'm using the yellow rope right now); and, most importantly, it's surrounded by zillions of class-5 strontium ferrite magnets, much larger and stronger than the ones I tried before.

It took me nearly an hour to adjust the flow out of the waste outlet so that the trickle of M-state is running at about a gallon an hour. I've already drunk several ounces of the presumed-M-state, and for what it's worth, it a) tastes different from the "whole" water and from the waste water and b) has made me feel just that little bit high.

Liter number three is filling right now. I'm planning to share some of the water with a couple of tuned-in friends in the next day or so and will share their reports, if any.

Building a trap for the second time was MUCH easier than the first time.

I was far more confident, understood the general principles better, and was freer to modify the design. I salvaged some of the expensive bits from the first trap, too.

I did end up using black ABS pipe for the body because it was the only type I could find that would fit snugly into the caps and fittings I wanted to use. However, bearing in mind Barry's warning that ABS isn't rated for drinking water, I lined the main body of the trap with thinner

PVC pipe. The other parts that touch the water are also PVC.

I don't have a digital camera right now, but I'd be glad to share my modified (and fairly simple) design with anyone here locally. When I can get hold of a camera, I'll send some pix to Barry.

More later on this M-channel.

Anne

Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 16:07:53 -0800
From: Anne
To: Portland WG
Subject: [pdx_wg] Water report

Portland Workgroup

Hi Barry and Portland Group:

I've been drinking my Portland m-state water for about a week now (at the rate of about 2.5 liters a day) and can report a few observations.

First, it's important to say that I'm using only a single-stage trap so far. I've had doubts about whether the water I'm deriving from the top of this trap is different from the water pouring out the bottom of it and down the drain; about whether Bull Run water actually contains any M-state at all. So my observations, while not earth-shattering, have helped give me some confidence to proceed.

1. The water has a slightly more viscous quality than what comes straight out of the tap. It's not "thick," but gives an impression of greater smoothness. Regular tap water feels very subtly astringent on my tongue by comparison.

2. The water makes the most excellent cup of cappuccino I've ever made at home: creamy and smooth and really dark. The steam seems to froth the milk up better, too. I'm enough of a coffee aficionado that the difference between M-coffee and tap-water coffee is quite startling.

3. I had a bottle of the water tested by a professional kinesiologist--this is someone who has been trained in muscle-testing for energy fields. Kinesiology is in the same family with dowsing. It was an informal test--I just handed him the bottle, explained that it was tap water that had been run through a magnetic device, and asked if he could tell me anything about it. He did a couple of muscle-tests on it and said that it was definitely cleaner, purer, or more water-like than water, and that there was something energetically stronger about it. I may ask him if he'd be interested in performing more structured kinesiology tests later.

4. I gave a bottle of the water to a friend who understood what she was getting. We were in a seminar together, sitting on a sofa, and after a while she had to move the bottle away from contact with her leg, because she said it was distracting her with its high energy field. She experienced the energy as something like a slight electrical field, but cold.

5. The temperature in my kitchen seems to drop noticeably when I run the tap water through the trap. I don't know if this is just the normal negative-ion effect of a lot of running water, or if it's specific to the presence of M-state. The coolness isn't cold or chilly. I'd describe it more as a freshness.

6. As to effects on me from drinking the water: the only thing I've noticed so far is a significantly diminished appetite (in my case, a good thing). I experience a very slight spaciness right while I'm drinking the water, but this quickly goes away. I don't have any significant health complaints, so I can't report an cures right now; however, I'm monitoring an uncomfortable hip joint to see if it improves.

I hope my experiences give some of the other Portlanders the encouragement to go ahead and try their own traps. There's SOMETHING in this water!

Anne

Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 22:19:59 -0800
From: AnneTo: Portland WG
Subject: [pdx_wg] Further report on Portland M-State

Portland Workgroup

I gave a 750 mL bottle of my vortrap water to an acquaintance to try. He is trained as a shaman and therefore pretty in tune with non-ordinary reality--so is arguably more sensitive to the properties of M-state than someone without that sort of training would be.

He was extremely excited about his experiences drinking just this small amount of the water. He doled it out, he says, over several days, and experienced high-like energetic effects from each dose. He reports an almost instantaneous (one-day) healing of a hemorrhoid, which would please anyone! He's eager to have more of the water, and has asked me for instructions on how to obtain his own.

I'm running a batch right now. The kitchen coolness is very noticeable, and the drinking fresh stuff immediately after it comes out of the trap has a distinctly stronger energy effect than when I drink a two-day-old bottle. Conversely, the "older" water seems more viscous and "thick," though this perceived difference could be mostly due to the water's temperature--it's very cold out of the tap.

More as it unfolds.

Anne

Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 23:22:20 -0800
From: Anne
To: Portland WG

Portland Workgroup

Hi Barry and group:

Today I spent a couple of hours collecting trap water from a mountain spring. As the Portland folks probably know, there's a drinking water cistern up on the Sunset Highway (Hwy 26) about 40 miles west of Portland. It's been there for at least 40 years, because I remember it from my childhood.

The spring is tapped at its underground source, near the summit of the Cascade Range, and its water basically doesn't see daylight till it comes out the spigot of the roadside cistern. There's a hose-bib type outlet on the side of the cistern as well as a constantly-bubbling drinking fountain spout at the top.

I fitted my vortrap with a hose coupling and hauled it up there, to sit for well over an hour as I collected a little over three gallons of what I hope is some interesting M-state water. The flow from the hose bib was not real strong, so I wasn't able to get a whole lot of water pressure. Nevertheless, by adjusting the waste outlet, I was able to get a small, regular trickle from the trap's upper outlet. My new trap has a removable top, so I opened it and could see that the water pressure, though light, was creating a very good, smooth, strong vortex in the body of the trap.

The water tastes completely different from Portland water. It appears to have more mineral content. While I was waiting for my containers to fill, I spoke to three or four other people who pulled off the highway to collect drinking water. They all said they made a practice of stopping for this special water whenever they were traveling to and from the coast, and all mentioned knowing of people who drink this water exclusively.

I have already consumed about a quart of the trap water from this source. It's similar in consistency to the trap water I've been getting here in town, and at this early stage I can't report any huge, noticeable differences in effect. I continue to feel both energized and a little bit high--not so that it stops me from getting things done (on the contrary, I've been busy and efficient), but when I do stop, I notice a slight lightheadedness. I'm still trying to figure out how to describe it. It's like a meditative state, almost a pooling of energy in the upper part of my head, behind my eyes. I have a feeling that I could see etherically if I tried. My hands have been cool all afternoon and evening--not unpleasantly cold, but rather as if there's a fresh, cool field emanating from them where I had them in the water adjusting the hoses and connections.

I'll be sharing the Sunset Highway water with my two fellow experimenters tomorrow, and hope to be able to make another trip up there before too long. The cost of gas is almost offset by the fact that this water flows for free. I'll keep everyone posted.

Anne